Thursday, October 26, 2006

Another Thursday

No, I did not skip class last week as I SOOOOO wanted to. I had big commitments for last class, like getting a paper written and handed in (even if it was 4 hours too late and a few pages short). I did have a crazy day though, last week. I drove in Toronto for the first time and, as expected for a first timer, I got lost, stuck in traffic and came to class 2 hours late!! I got there though and got the paper in. After class I drove to the airport and picked up Sarah's fiance, Nate. What an awesome week it has been since then. Looking back I would say that I was burning myself out with my schedule, work, and school. I didn't go back to work until yesterday and then back to school today so life did slow down. I'm looking forward to getting into a regular schedule from now on, though.
I slept in this morning and so the Toronto map that I bought last week came in handy as I drove to school again today. This time I was only 30 min. late but it was fine since I was able to slip quietly into our discussion group. I drove to Redeemer after class to meet up with mom since she's at the teachers conference here. So I'm here at Redeemer's library today taking care of business while mom is at a seminar. It's good to see her and get a hug again. We don't often get alone time.
I think I stamped presence in class today as a talker... and maybe a controversial one. I don't really know what the class thought of what I was saying but I know that the professor and I didn't see eye to eye. The problem is, I didn't get much time to think about it and really know what I was going to say.... I just knew that It didn't sound right to me and that I had to say something. Here, let me set it up for you. (note: this might be confusing so feel free to skip this part) :
  • The prof was talking about the Self and where sin comes into the picture. We were given a diagram to explore the person with and it looks something like a circle target. It has about 3 circles getting larger and larger. So there is the outer defense system, the inner defense system and the central core of the person, like the soul.
  • So the prof. discusses different views on sin. Some people say that we are born good and slowly learn sin and evil. Some say that we have sin as part of our nature.
  • The prof brings up passages of the Bible that say that the person is sinful by nature and is lost without God. So far, I do not have any problems with this. My problem comes when he applies this to the diagram. He says there are two types of people. The regenerate (I'm assuming he means non-Christian) and the unregenerate (Christian).
  • Here is the diagram of the unregenerate: Picture a fried egg on the diagram of circles. Prof. said that the core, just that small circle, is where sin comes from. It is our inner most person that is full of sin and it is from the inside that sin slowly seeps its way through the person. I had a really hard time understanding this issue and so I put up my hand. I said that I don't believe that it is only the core that is completely sinful. Is he saying that there are some parts of us that are good (through conscience, good parenting, culture etc.)? He said, yes, the core is sinful and there are parts of us that are good, otherwise we would all be going out into the streets killing eachother. I must have looked really skepticle because he asked what I thought. I say that I think it is our whole being that is steeped in sin but that we are also made good. God created us in His image, no? I think we find God within us, don't we? I think this is a whole area of revelation... through the heart. But then, this is the unChristian person. I still think that we can find God in the unChristian. I just don't agree with this mans idea of sin. There are just way too many holes in it.
  • Next he gives the diagram of the regenerate: Now picture the fried egg but the inside is white. Once we become Christians, the holy spirit works in our hearts to redirect them towards God. So I ask, where does sin come from now then? Oh, well.... it comes from past habits, past sin, choices that the outer self still makes. This just totally baffles me. I talked too much already so I shut my mouth and let the class continue but it was obvious that I had more to say.
  • Another woman in the class was interested in what I said and challenged me a few other times but I couldn't really hear her. I know at one point she asked me a question that I can't really remember. I think it was something about the sin of Christians and how it's different from nonChristians. I'm sitting at the back of the class so everyone has turned around to talk to me and I know that my answer is the "wrong" answer so I squirmed until someone said... "go ahead, you're with friends". I said that I didn't think there was a difference. We are all in need of grace.

Some of those points up there didn't really have a point they are just things that have happened. Like I said earlier, I didn't have much time to reflect on what I was going to say so maybe I said things wrong but what do you think? I was really surprised by the difference in theology. I guess that's what happens when you are in one community for so much of your life. I want to hear what you guys think. Maybe I didn't really explain myself that well so you don't know what I'm talking about but if you do, tell me what you think.

I'm looking forward to a normal schedule for the next couple of weeks. Probably lots of work but hopefully more time for myself. My goal is to make a few batches of yogurt, some bread (hints and advice on this are welcome since i don't have a breadmaker) and figure out how to keep the mice out of the chicken coop. Oh, and spend some time with Dan. That's always a good thing.

Thanks for reading!!

3 Comments:

Blogger Sarah said...

First of all i think we need to chat about this at Christmas because i find it is of interest to me.. Blogging just doesn't do justice.
Second of all. I am learning about the importance of scripture. Baptists tend to be extremely scriptural. It is wise to refer to the Bible when you have doubts about the Teacher. Even when you don't have doubts, check to see if what they are saying is true. Sometimes i think we have the tendancy to not challenge our teachers. To challenge is to learn. I'm feel unqualified to agree/disagree with your opinions stated in this blog. Although i do agree with you in the sense that we are all in need of grace. Looking forward to discussing this with you by the Christmas tree!

1:33 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nicole... I have had a few disagreements with people about this one too. Remember Wolter's book, Creation Regained? -in it, he said that sin is like a disease that eats away at the person... and that the cure (Christ's redemption) starts to heal but that the disease still rages until brought under control (I think, when Christ's work is complete, when we are with him). I basically take this view. Although I believe that we are a new creation, I still think we're sinners! Some Christians say that we aren't sinners anymore because Christ has killed our sin nature. If that's the case, why do we keep sinning, then? When we have Christ, we have the option to do good, but we often still choose evil. I heard one lady say that our sin nature is dead, so to continue sinning is like carrying around the corpse of a dead relative with us wherever we go. I'll list some of the verses that I can think of that relate at all to this topic!
2 Corinthians 5:16-18
16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation...
Romans 7:14-24
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
James 1:13-15
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jeremiah 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Of course, this was written before Christ's blood was shed, if that makes any difference...
So anyways, I believe that when we are Christians, our sin does not come from something outside of us, or even by past habits or whatever. I think it is STILL very much in us, even though we should be sanctified by Christ day by day. "...he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus" (Philippians 1:6). Sounds like we're still a work in progress.

Anyway, for all I know, I could be speaking heresy. I'd love to talk to you about this more if you're still interested in it. I can call you if you like: my plan is cheap. Just send me an e-mail with good times listed and I'll see if any of them work for me.

1:37 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nicky your way over my head with this but i am with Sarah, will still be glad to talk about at Christmas time lots of love

9:10 a.m.  

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